On Community with Dulma Altan, Founder and CEO of Makelane

Dulma Altan is sharp and shrewd in a way that extends from her head to her heart. She’s building the masterclass for women entrepreneurs at Makelane, currently supporting a rapidly growing community of 1400+ e-commerce and direct to consumer founders. Makelane hosts live classes and events, offers office hours with branding and marketing experts, and is building an iterative educational curriculum for the membership. Most of all at Makelane female founders are finding camaraderie and support within an affinity community. We spoke recently as the temps started to rise in L.A. and she shared her thoughts on community development, value, and the power of intimacy for growth.

What inspired you to build your own community and launch it as a company?

At the time I was working on my first business, which was an e-commerce business [Potion]. There were different communities I was a part of that were exciting, and I liked connecting to the different women, but not all those women were in my industry. It wasn’t always super valuable to network with them; it was kind of hit or miss. And I thought, okay, I’m getting some value out of this, but how great would it be if all of my serendipitous connections with the members of these communities were specifically with people who are in my space?

But I couldn’t find anything that was specifically for women with e-commerce businesses. I saw the value [in the communities], but I thought it could be more valuable if it were more niche. I had the idea to start gathering women together, online and offline, who were all in that same sector, who are all e-commerce or retail or CPG founders, whatever you want to call it. And that’s how my community grew.

The fact that we are a women focused company, and our first community is all women with different e-commerce businesses, creates a safe space for people to let their guards down, be candid, share their struggles, and know that they’re not alone.

What are the benefits of community?

There are, broadly speaking, in my experience, two benefits to community: one is a sense of belonging and emotional support, the other one is practical value. A lot of communities skew towards one or the other. My goal with Makelane is to incorporate both.

The fact that we are a women focused company, and our first community is all women with different e-commerce businesses, creates a safe space for people to let their guards down, be candid, share their struggles, and know that they’re not alone. It gives them that sense of psychological and emotional support. And the other part of the value is business focused. It’s a professionally focused community, so they can go in there and ask, has anybody used this agency before? Or how do you think about hiring for this kind of a role?

Where are you placing yourself as the founder? You’re running the business and everything that comes with that. And then also, you’re part of the community. How does that work out?

Having this community is almost like being able to survey my potential customers at any time. It’s having customer development on tap without even necessarily having to prompt them to give me feedback. I’m seeing the conversations they’re having with each other, I’m seeing what kind of questions they’re posting, I see what kinds of comments they’re posting on other people’s things. I get to see what their needs are and understand their pain points really well. And then that informs everything else I do in the company. As far as bandwidth, it is extra time, but it’s also my job as the founder to be constantly talking to our customers. This is the most efficient, built in, one to many way to do it.

How did you find your interactions with community members shifting and growing as the community grew?

In the beginning, when there are many members you have to go in there and “prime the pump” and try to get people to engage as much as possible. After it reaches that critical mass, you no longer need to prompt every discussion. Instead people start to talk to each other on their own.

One thing that I’ve learned is that a lot of the women in our community have so much to offer and are experts in their own right. And they want to help each other. I knew that before, but I didn’t know to what extent that was true. So initially I was putting it on myself to constantly post insights and little educational tid bids and resources in the community.

Now, instead, I’ll ask a question that I know people will have interesting answers to based on their experience, which will be valuable for people who are maybe a little bit earlier [on their founder journey]. And I’ll step back after I ask the question and see what conversations develop organically in the comments. I’ll say something like, how do you practice self care as a founder or what’s your experience with hiring interns? Then I’ll step back and that’s all I need to do. I’ll allow [community members] to step up and help each other, instead of assuming that I have the answers, which I really don’t.

When [community is] based on an identity, the more you can cultivate and encourage that, and position yourself as a community that is speaking to some part of people’s identities, that is the way you create evangelists.

Do you think that there’s a difference in communities based on shared identity versus communities based on shared outcomes for what people are doing?

Sometimes those two things can overlap. In the case of Makelane, being a female founder, the outcome you’re striving for is to grow a successful company. And success means different things to different people. But the thing about a business is that you can quantify results. So ostensibly people either want to grow their revenue or their profit or their evaluation or whatever.

With an outcome-based community you come back for the value you might potentially get, but you don’t have the sense of loyalty. You probably wouldn’t wear swag with that community brand, have it’s name on your sweater or something. Whereas I think with the former, when it’s based on an identity, the more you can cultivate and encourage that, and position yourself as a community that is speaking to some part of people’s identities, that is the way you create evangelists and you create people who want to bring in their friends into the community.

That brings me to healthy community. What are examples of healthy community and how do you work to instill that at Makelane?

Number one, are people engaged? Are they starting conversations on their own? Are they responding to things that other people post? Are they answering questions from their peers?

And then the second thing is, does there seem to be an implicit understanding of the DNA and the culture of that community? Every community, whether it’s explicit or intentional or not, has its own culture. I’ve noticed a lot of communities, especially Facebook groups, can have a toxic culture. When somebody posts a question other people pile on and basically imply that it was a stupid question or respond in a sarcastic way. That’s what I’m seeing a lot in e-commerce. And I really don’t like that. I wanted to create a community that felt a lot safer. No question is stupid. You’re never going to be torn down for being too early in your journey.

The extent to which you can make those things explicit in terms of guidelines or community agreements is a good thing. But even if you don’t, there’s going to be a sense of what’s okay and what’s not. People are going to pick up on it and they’re going to know, and it’s up to the moderator to enforce it and to keep embodying those values.

If somebody is being spammy or self promotional, or this almost never happens, but if somebody is being rude, then I call it out in a public way so that it sets an example. And other people know that’s not what we do here. That might be okay in other groups, but that’s not what we do here.

Is that by constantly checking in or by leading by example?

It’s both. When I post things, I always try to be super encouraging, and positive and uplifting and supportive, of everyone. If somebody says that they had a small win, I try to acknowledge it, or when new people join the community, I welcome them explicitly.

And I try to celebrate people’s publicity that they get, if somebody gets featured in TechCrunch or something. That goes a long way because it embodies the fact that this is a community where you’re going to be celebrated and people are going to lift you up.

Then the other thing is if people are violating guidelines, then I step in and firmly and publicly, but gently, call it out. If somebody is being spammy or self promotional, or this almost never happens, but if somebody is being rude, then I call it out in a public way so that it sets an example. And other people know that’s not what we do here. That might be okay in other groups, but that’s not what we do here.

People want to be part of a community where the person who is organizing it cares, because then everybody else starts to care about each other.

How does the community component of Makelane support the other offerings of your company?

If you’re starting a business, you have, broadly speaking, two kinds of needs. You need knowledge about how to hire, how to fundraise, how to find suppliers, how to develop your product. And then the other thing is you need a support system. The value of Makelane is it provides both. Because yes, we have courses. We have workshops, we have content, but that is not going to answer everything. There are a million and 1 questions that people are going to have all the time about how to do all these different pieces of their business.

There are a lot of questions you can’t figure out if you just Google. Your only other option is to learn through trial and error. That’s where a community comes in real handy. They might have the answers or they might have some different perspectives that you need to make the right decision. It provides that support system of like-minded people who are in the trenches with you.

What is really imperative for people to take away from all that you’re sharing?

One of the most important things to starting and scaling a thriving community is to understand that intimacy is a big part of the value of a community. Intimacy begins with you really caring about each person. And in the beginning getting to know them and doing a lot of things that don’t scale, per the Paul Graham quote. I was going into the [Makelane] community and for the first several months, every time a new person joined, I would message them and either get them on a phone call or me. I was trying to get to know every single person, what their business was about why they were doing it, what their career was like before, what their dreams were for their company — all these different things that then created evangelists. There were a lot of people who were not that engaged with our community before I talked to them.

There are many groups out there and at this point what distinguishes certain groups from others is, as I said before, the culture and the DNA of that group. People want to be part of a community where the person who is organizing it cares, because then everybody else starts to care about each other. That’s what I’ve learned.

What’s next for Makelane and your community in the year ahead?

We’re looking to unlock the power of female entrepreneurship and democratize access to the knowledge and tools that women need to start thriving businesses. And we do that through community and courses and content. That mission of amplifying the power of female entrepreneurship is a really significant one for our society, because everyone will be better off if women are in control of their lives, pursuing their dreams, and starting businesses that are creating more freedom in their lives. I’m excited about the mission, and hiring the team to help us get there, and building more courses and programs that will allow us to achieve that mission. That’s exciting to me.

Thank you.